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> Bandera's Holocaust, Because of Poles fault ?
     
Musij
 

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post 26/07/2011, 19:12 Quote Post

hello
i have a question to poles. Didnt you think that "Holocaust po banderowsku" was a fault of your own?
P.S.
I'm not banderivec. sorry for bad english smile.gif
 
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post 26/07/2011, 19:21 Quote Post

What d'you mean "a fault of our own"? That Poles provoked it?
 
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post 26/07/2011, 22:01 Quote Post

No
I mean polish position towards ukrainians in Halychyna. polonisation, dealing Poland on A(Poland) and B(West Ukraine,West Belorussia) etc.
 
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post 26/07/2011, 22:09 Quote Post

All right. So what you're saying is thar it was Polish government's politics before 1939 that caused the counterreaction of "holocaust po banderowsku". Is that right?
 
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post 26/07/2011, 22:35 Quote Post

QUOTE(Musij @ 26/07/2011, 19:12)
Didnt you think that "Holocaust po banderowsku" was a fault of your own?

*


Sorry, but there can only be one answer to that statement= it's rubbish.
 
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post 27/07/2011, 9:30 Quote Post

QUOTE(Musij @ 26/07/2011, 23:01)
dealing Poland on A(Poland) and B(West Ukraine,West Belorussia) etc.
*


The dividing of Poland on "Poland A" and "Poland B" wasn't up to Poles themselves. That was the share of different development of II RP's lands by foreign powers. Btw, I'm a Pole from former (and present, unfortanetly) "Poland B", and I'm not from western Ukraine/Belarus. I live on territories which have been ethnically Polish by circa 600 years, and we didn't murdered any Poles from "Poland A" wink.gif. The polonisation existed by a very short time and was rather weak.
You do must notice that the truth is somewhere in between.

Ten post był edytowany przez Andronikos: 27/07/2011, 9:34
 
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post 29/07/2012, 14:40 Quote Post

QUOTE
You do must notice that the truth is somewhere in between.

In between there is ass crack. The truth is where it is.
 
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post 29/07/2012, 15:36 Quote Post

Mykola, let me answer you with the question - do you consider there exist circumstances that make holocaust-like actions justifiable? You know, like it's ok to murder 100 thousand people because of something?
 
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post 28/02/2014, 9:32 Quote Post

Poles are responsible for this action as much as greedy, powerful Jews for their own holocaust.

Let's be serious - you can't justify slaughtering innocent civilians in our times. I would consider understanding actions of UPA against Polish partizants, but not what they did in Wołyń. II Republic tried to polonise Ukrainians, but this wasn't severly oppresive action - and even if it was, it wouldn't justify the Ukrainian murderers of II world war.
 
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post 28/02/2014, 18:47 Quote Post

I think that, this was also fault of Poles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor , but I've never heard Ukrainians
taking revenge against Stalin.
 
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post 28/02/2014, 19:29 Quote Post

QUOTE
I think that, this was also fault of Poles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor , but I've never heard Ukrainians taking revenge against Stalin.


Well, I have.

CODE
During late 1944 and the first half of 1945, according to Soviet data, the UPA suffered approximately 89,000 killed, approximately 91,000 captured, and approximately 39,000 surrendered while the Soviet forces lost approximately 12,000 killed, approximately 6,000 wounded and 2,600 MIA. In addition, during this time, according to Soviet data UPA actions resulted in the killing of 3,919 civilians and the disappearance of 427 others.


Source: Ivan Bilas. Repressive-punishment system in Ukraine. 1917-1953 Vol.2 Kiev Lybid-Viysko Ukrainy, 1994

Stalin was too far, his troops and agents were closer. Anyway, it doesn't explain UPA actions against Polish civilians. They had nothing to do with Holodomor. According to your source:

CODE
Moldavian, Polish, German and Bulgarian population that mostly resided in the rural communities of Ukraine suffered in the same proportion as the rural Ukrainian population.


Ten post był edytowany przez Blake: 28/02/2014, 19:29
 
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post 28/02/2014, 19:32 Quote Post

Musij, the assumption that the victims were somewhat responsible for their own fate in the hands of perpetrators doesn't simply meet neither the standards of our civilization, nor standards of everyday's common sense, sometimes also called as a 'smell test'. Whatever happened, the sole responsibility for a spilled blood of many thousands of innocent victims lays only on the hands of those who committed those heinous crimes.
 
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post 2/03/2014, 20:23 Quote Post

I must admit that question isn't 100% rubbish. While I agree with Baszybuzuk- there's nothing justifying Nazis actions as well as UPAs, but- reluctantly- I admit that both parties had their reasons. Nonetheless- not even in 1% good enough to justify their actions.

Ten post był edytowany przez Mixxer5: 2/03/2014, 20:24
 
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post 4/04/2014, 7:09 Quote Post

QUOTE(Musij @ 26/07/2011, 19:12)
hello
i have a question to poles. Didnt you think that "Holocaust po banderowsku" was a fault of your own?

Our answer is obvious and very short: "No!"
 
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post 13/06/2014, 8:33 Quote Post

QUOTE(Musij @ 26/07/2011, 19:12)
hello
i have a question to poles. Didnt you think that "Holocaust po banderowsku" was a fault of your own?
P.S.
I'm not banderivec. sorry for bad english smile.gif


No, not at all.

In reality, the genocide of Polish civilian population done by UPA/OUN was linked with the fascist ideology of OUN, which was in many ways similiar to nazism and include..d a goal of creating Ukraine "free" of Poles, Jews, Romanians and others. Now in Ukraine there is a lot of propaganda about that and history of OUN/UPA is presented in a very deformed way, without informing about the real nature of OUN's ideology.

Basically, UPA/OUN(cool.gif murdered almost everyone - Poles, Jews, even Ukrainian nationalists from the rival OUN(M), Melnyk's faction.

Ten post był edytowany przez Johny1: 13/06/2014, 8:36
 
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