salve,
Mohacs AD 1526 -
August 29 was a "clear and rather bright day."przegladalem sobie fragment
na wanax.pl i jest napisane w ksiazce:
QUOTE
Ciężkozbrojni rycerze na wielkich, również zakutych w żelazo koniach nie mieli większych szans na wyrwanie się z grząskiej topieli.
i zastanawia mnie ta kwestia
wielkich koni, grzaznacych w topieli - albowiem ponad 20kilka lat wczesniej w Italii oladrowane konie rycerstwa wloskiego walczyly szarzujac ze swoimi zakutymi w stal panami przez wezbrane wody rzeki Taro - i byly to tysiace koni dywizji Gonzaga, ktore musialy z koryta rzeki zrobic grzezawisko - bitwa pod Fornovo. Do tego padalo a jak juz pisalem rzeka byla wezbrana.
Przy okazji wedlug niektorych zrodel -
QUOTE
The young King, led by a Silesian nobleman, had crossed in his flight the muddy stream which traverses the plain of Mohacs [wedlug cytowanej wegierskiej rpacy ponizej ta rzeczka nie miala znaczenia, wiec mzoe chodiz o Dunaj], when his horse, in attempting to mount the opposite bank, fell backwards, and buried himself and his rider in the morass.
upadek zmeczonego konia nie jest niczym
Inna kwestia skad Wegrzy, Czesi i Slazacy et ich balkanscy wasale mieliby wziasc 'wielkie konie' i co to w ogole byly 'wielkie konie' pod Mohacs'em?
nastepna kwestia:
QUOTE
Tymczasem Osmanowie przełamali uderzenie ciężkozbrojnej jazdy, w czym główną rolę odegrała ich artyleria
ale:
1.raport Suleymana
QUOTE
Suleyman's diary: "they startedto fire the guns, but could cause no damage."
2.Wegrzy pisza zupelnie co innego o porazce jazdy ciezkozbrojnej -
http://www.hungarian-history.hu/lib/warso/warso26.htmQUOTE
the cause of the failure was not the fire of the enemy artillery
dalej
QUOTE
The real reason of failure was that by this time the bulk of the Ottoman central army, including the janissaries, had reached the bottom of the terrace and had fired volleys at the Hungarian soldiers engaged in collecting booty and at those who were still fighting. This shooting, unlike the firing of the artillery,had not only sound and fury, but impact as well: it caused havoc in the ranks of the Hungarians. According to the diary of Suleyman:"The division of the janissaries attacked the contemptible djaursthree or four times with musket fire and tried to force them back.,'According to Kemal Pashazade, the janissaries "distributed bulletslike hailstorm." According to Pechevi the janissaries "fired in unison and so accurately that the bravest among the infidels fell during the very first assault." Although all three communications report shooting by the janissaries as taking place at the same time as the engagement of the Anatolian army, it is most likely that the musket fire also supported the Rumelian army. At this stage the Hungarians, loss of tempo took effect. The failure of the right flank's chargemeant nothing less than that the battle was hopelessly lost. It also appears that Tomori died a hero's death at this point.
Dalej na wanax.pl
QUOTE
Walczono przez półtorej godziny, jak pisał Stefan Broderyk, jednakże zapadłe ciemności oraz deszcz uratowały życie wielu Węgrów.
Wegierska praca cytowana powyzej pisze cos innego - ze musiano walczyc dluzej, gdyz zwyczajowo stawiajaca namioty armia osmanska, tego wieczoru ich nie postawila - a jezeli walke skonczono przed 18 to dxien ten bedac dniem sierpniowym konczyl sie apre godzin pozniej. Byc moze opor centrum - piechoty tral do zmierzchu
The infantry at the center fought the longest. These tough, experienced mercenaries knew well they could find no place to hide from the Ottoman cavalry by running away, and gave their lives dearly.Apparently they fought in some kind of quadrangle or square formation, presumably because they were already surrounded by the Ottomans on all sides. The infantry perished almost to the last man. - i moze tez lewego skrzydla trwal nieco dluzej niz owe 2 godziny, , a rozpad prawego skrzydla mial miejsce po 1 h 1/2 walki?
Inna sprawa ze ciekawy ejs wegeirski komentarz na temat kronikarza Stefana
QUOTE
Brodarics, who could not identify the most important aspects of the battle in his calmer moments, must have lost his head completely when the cannons began to roll and he had to struggle with his mount, which went wild at the sound of the firing. He projected the terror that seized him onto the entire Hungarian army and from here on his account can be taken only with the greatest reservations [sic!}.
Jesli chodiz o zrodla tureckie to Wegrzy najbardziej wierza relacji 'Sulejmana', a reszte traktuja surowo a krytycznie - w sumie ciekawe jak sie ma ikonograficzna (miniatury tureckie) kronika bitwy w ksiazce.
Moze czytelnicy ksiazki dadza odpowiedzi na te pytania? Ojala, jak mawiaja Hiszpanie
Swoja droga to ciekawe czy to co jest na wanax to fragment ksiazki czy opis od wydawnictwa?